Wednesday, December 06, 2006

Freddy Garcia is a Phil

i originally saw it reported on and then corroborated on the phils are sending gavin floyd and gio gonzalez to the white sox for freddy garcia. aaron rowand is not part of the deal.



Blogger Corey & Carson said...

i like the garcia trade. i very much dislike floyd and gio gonzalez is unproven. he could end up being likely johan santana or julio santana. it's a good trade because garcia is solid and proven, plus it puts the phils in a good situation with excess starting pitching to deal...bye-bye lieber.

7:52 AM EST  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I love this trade provided Garcia isn't damaged goods. Despite what many people think, the Phillies gave up a lot. Gavin Floyd certainly appears to be a pussy, but you give up on talented young pitching prospects too early at your own peril. I wish we could have convinced the Sox to take the overrated Rowand instead of Gio Gonzalez. Gonzalez really impressed me when I last saw him pitch. He gave up about six runs in the first inning (last game of the season against Trenton). Rather than pout, he settled down and threw a tremendous game after.

The best part of this deal is it allows up to trade Leiber with impunity. Big-head Mench? Fine.

Hey Big Dog, if the Phillies get your friend, I hope that means you can score first row seats?

C'mon, Pat. Keep things rolling. How about Rowand for significant middle relief help?

Anyone catch the bench talk Dallas Green gave the Bat? He basically challenged him to stop chasing tail and concentrate on being a ball player. The Phillies website has been providing fantastic honest coverage of what's happening behind the scenes.

Ed Wade

8:52 AM EST  
Blogger The Big Dog said...

Corey and Carson, I have ventured over to your blog on numerous occasions and I think that it is extremely witty and borderline hysterical. What's wrong with Garcia? This seemed to easy. Did Gillick get Williams drunk?

8:54 AM EST  
Blogger The Big Dog said...

Ed, Menchy would have instant fan clubs at the Bank. He seriously is an Eagles season ticket holder, too. Would you trade Hey Hey Hey Lieber for him? And maybe Turnbow? Turnbow does throw gas (around 100, but doesn't have health problems) and Mench can hit some bombs, I guess inevitably replacing Dellucci. Can you get more for a proven #1 starter with a small contract? I don't know, but the way it stands today....Myers, Hamels, Garcia, Eaton and Wolf....that is not that bad, I'm thinking. Here's the skinny...they are going to move Lieber, probably before the week is out. I honestly have heard that the Milwaukee deal is done, but hopefully Old Fashioned Pat rakes them for as much as possible. I guess if they get Mench, perhaps have Turnbow as a set-up/closer, have an outfield of Burrell, Victorino, Rowand and Mench and Conine as fillers, the fab 3 with Helms/Nunez and Ruiz as catcher with probably another younger catcher as his back-up plus that rotation (plus maybe another pen arm or 2)...Coste off the bench....right now it doesn't sound that bad, especially if you can move Burrell to 6 or 7...??

9:14 AM EST  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Corey & Carson -

How about letting non-bloggers post to the comments section of your enormously entertaining blog??

Another Steve Jeltz fan,

Ed Wade

9:26 AM EST  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Big Dog -

I'd get whatever I could for the suddenly expendable Jon Leiber. The fact that you persinally vouch for Mench is enough for me. I've looked over his statistics and he appears to be a reasonable replacement for Delucci. If we can pick up innings for our bullpen in addition, I'm even happier.

Rowand is the bait we have left to get quality middle relief.

Damn, this is exciting.

Ed Wade

9:33 AM EST  
Blogger The Big Dog said...

I meant Moyer, not Wolf...I guess I am getting too excited. Here's what I know about Menchy...he went to U. of D, so.........:
1. He's tough as nails
2. He can take the booing
3. He's as smart as a whip
4. Strong as a bull
5. Drinks like a fish.

9:42 AM EST  
Anonymous Phil said...

Are you sure he's not a Super Hero? Does he also have a really cool utility belt and can leap over Citizen's Bank park in 1 leap?

10:37 AM EST  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does anyone else worry that this was too easy? All they gave up was a stiff in Gavin Floyd and a good prospect who is several years from the bigs. Too easy. Is this guy hurt? A clubhouse cancer? This cannot be as good a move as it appears.


11:11 PM EST  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


I usually find your pessimism a bit overstated, but with respect to this trade I share at least some of your concern, so let's think this through.

The White Sox are a shrewd organization and Garcia was a commodity that the rest of baseball should have been really interested in. On the surface, it seems like they could have done better.

But let's look at things from their perspective. They had a surplus of major league pitching talent and a need to create an opening for Brandon McCarthy. Garcia is in the walk year of his contract and there was some doubt in Chicago that they could afford to keep him next year. In effect, the Sox obtained two players who (they think) they can plug into their rotation in the near future without breaking the bank.

The Phillies actually gave up a lot. Despite the well-earned skepticism fans afford Floyd's potential, he is still very young and has a HUGE upside. I'll say it again: Don't be surprised if he turns out to be a stud pitcher 2-3 years down the road. Personally, I think he lacks only maturity and mental toughness. He may still find those missing incredients. The league is filled with star pitchers who struggled when they were this young. Think Chris Carpenter.

Gio Gonzalez is an extremely good prospect. Although his results in AA weren't spectacular, his stuff was. He's only 21. I'd bet money that he will be a nice major-league pitcher before too long. The White Sox are convinced of this and so are most people in baseball.

I'd be a lot more worried if the Phillies managed to get Garcia for Floyd and Rowand, which was the initial rumor. The fact that Chicago held out for Gonzalez tells me they didn't just give away Garcia.

This trade is a lot fairer than you think. Both teams got things they need. In the short run, the Phillies will probably gain more, but don't be surprised in Chicago winds up with more long-term value.

I doubt Garcia is hurt. He had a great second half last year (after getting off to a rough start). He throws 200+ innings every year. I'm a little concerned that his fastball is down to 92 mph, but he still throws hard enough to get people out and still has a great curve. From all accounts, he is NOT a clubhouse cancer.

Let's see how this plays out. Personally, I think the Phillies rotation for 2007 shapes up pretty nicely. Gillick still has some work to do to fix the bullpen, but he can accomplish this by trading Jon Leiber or signing some free agents. He picked up a couple of arms in the rule 5 draft also.

The Inquirer speculated that the Phillies might consider trading Myers instead of Leiber. If they go this route, they are certain to pick up enough talent to sure up the bullpen. I really hope they don't go this route, but it seems possible they've decided that Myers is too big of an asshole to rehabilitate.

Let's hope for the best.

Ed Wade

9:59 AM EST  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for the baseball scoop. I feel a bit better after the rationale you propose. I don't see it with Floyd in Philly-he will never be tough enough to pitch in Boobird City-but he may in some nice quiet market where all they care about is that you showed up and no one got hurt.


10:50 AM EST  
Blogger The Big Dog said...

As you can see from a previous post, I had a similar concern as Bumble...Garcia, however, appears to be an innings eater and healthy. I think Ed's assessment is dead on. Floyd was toast here. I think he was seriously close to tears on multiple occasions and probably has bad make-up. Whatever, it was a deal that had to be done. In no way, shape or form would I hold onto Lieber and let Myers way. Myers is a top of the rotation guy and Lieber is a top of the sundae guy. No f-in' way. Menchy is no longer a viable candidate here, either. Wild Turkey Pat is going to auction Lieber off to the highest bidder and hopefully get bullpen arms and/or a bat in return.

11:16 AM EST  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Myers is a top of the rotation guy and Lieber is a top of the sundae guy"

I'm still laughing my ass off

Ed Wade

11:49 AM EST  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have the day off from work, so I decided to do a little Christmas shopping for the Phillies. It’s cold out, so cleaning the garage can wait.

I’m heading to the local Barnes and Noble. Here’s my list so far:

Shane Victorino. Stealing is My Game (Prentice-Hall, 1976), by Lou Brock. Considering Shane’s gazelle-like speed and penchant for reaching first base, it’s criminal that he didn’t steal 30+ bases last year. The fact that he stole exactly 4 (out of 7 attempts) is down-right comical. He’s hanging out in Hawaii and Las Vegas this winter. I hope he’s trying to learn an art that he should have learned five years ago. Is anyone else offended that Victorino steals about as many bases as Pat Burrell (5 for 6 in 7 seasons)?

Jimmy Rollins. Patience (Guns N’ Roses, G ‘N’ R Lies, 1988), by Axl Rose. I don’t want Jimmy thinking about or trying to take pitches just to improve his on-base percentage, just because that’s what lead off hitters are supposed to do. I just want it to happen because it feels right. Flow, baby.


Brett Myers. Anger Management (An Anger Management Training Kit for People with Disabilities, 2006), by Hrepsime Gulbenkoglu and Nick Hagiliassis. The market offers many similar products, but I selected this one simply because guys with goofy names like these probably understand anger management better than most.

Wes Helms. The Little League Guide to Conditioning and Training (McGraw-Hill Professional, 2004), by Mark Gola. Don’t be fooled by the title. This chestnut includes some really sound pointers that may help Wes develop into a serviceable third basemen. Here’s a excerpt: “First, fielders must position their feet far apart to widen their base. This allows them to get low to the ground and reach for the ball. The distance the feet are spread apart varies on the size of the player, but feet should be well outside shoulder-width. A slight lean forward eliminates the prospect of falling back on the heels when fielding - an absolute no-no.”

Geoff Geary. The O’Reilly Factor for Kids (Harper Collins, 2004), by Bill O’Reilly. I’m really happy that Geoff likes to hang out with Ryan Howard, Shane Victorino, Jimmy Rollins and the other “cool kids” on the team. I love the fact Corey & Carson published a picture of Geoff partying with some hot teenage ass. But at the end of the day, Geary is a dork and I’m concerned about peer pressure. Our threadbare bullpen needs continued success from this guy even more than ever.

Ryan Howard. Staying on Top and Keeping Sand out of Your Pants (HCI, 2003), by Scott D. Miller, Mark Hubble, Seth Hardeshell. “The secret to achieving and maintaining balance and serenity lies in accepting and embracing that truth. For long-term devotees of self-help literature and newcomers to the genre, everyone will delight in this wise yet whimsical journey.” Sounds good. Another year just like 2006 is sure to follow the reading of this baby.
Chase Utley. Understanding Women: The Definitive Guide to Meeting, Dating, and Dumping, if Necessary (Lightning Source, Inc. 2004), by Romy Miller. Compare the company Chase keeps to Cole Hamels or Geoff Geary. All I’m saying is that Chase can do better.

Chris Coste. Baseball’s Good Guys (Sports Publishing LLC, 2004), by Marshall J. Cook, Jack Walsh. There’s a really good chapter, titled “Second Chances,” by Tommy John. The steroids finally paid off for Coste in 2006. The Phillies seem intent on writing the guy off in 2007. I think he deserves a second chance to catch lightning in a bottle.

Pat Burrell. Action Chicks (Palgrave, 2004), by Sherrie A. Inness. The actual content of this tomb might disappoint the Bat, but I’m guessing he won’t have time to read it anyway.

Cole Hamels. Less Than Zero (Simon & Schuster, Inc. 1985), by Bret Easton Ellis. I want Cole to read this masterpiece for about a million reasons, but I’ll outline just three: The title points to the same direction Cole should point his ERA, Cole is about the same age as Bret when he wrote the book, and he deserve to live the same crazy life for at least another year or so, and Jamie Gertz, who played Blair in the outrageously bad movie adaptation, has sublime cans.

Jeff Gordon. Ageing and Popular Culture (Cambridge University Press, 1999), by Andrew Blaikie. “This book traces the historical emergence of stereotypes of retirement and documents their latter-day dissolution, making striking use of visual sources, especially photography. Policy perceptions, media images and popular understandings are shown to suggest that the extended leisure phase known as the Third Age is breaking down old barriers between mid and later life. However, as the "gray market" perpetuates the quest for eternal youth, the biological realities of deep old age present an increasingly difficult challenge.” Whatever. Let’s hope Flash has one more year left in his bionic arm.

Charlie Manuel. The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Reinventing Yourself (Alpha Books, 2001), by Jeff Davidson. I considered a different sort of self-help books - something along the lines of English as a Second Language - but decided that Charlie might misinterpret the gesture. Besides, I really want him to come back as a professional, big-league manager in 2007.

11:50 AM EST  
Blogger The Big Dog said...

Hey, there's a report that AI has demanded a trade out of here...the Sixers season has quickly turned pathetic. Suspect a lot of massaging to this team. Billy King is the biggest fraud down in South Philly right now. Demanding a trade, which reports are saying, basically is city career killing. I love AI, but trading him is a mercy kill. At this point, this team needs a lot....the only players I keep are Iguodala, Carney and Korver as a shooter....everybody else is on the block. And quite frankly, to get Webber and Dalembert out of here, everybody is available....Billy King has ruined the team and I don't want him near the organization anymore...his horrible talent evaluation and long term anchor contracts have been the scourge of Philly. Please fire him....please. Please....bring back the Devil if you have to (I think Brown is a great coach, but his players can only play for him, he leaves the team is sunk)....Please help this franchise................!!!!!!!!!!

2:07 PM EST  
Anonymous Phil said...

I think AI just needs a new sport. Iggles need some more "dog" in them and if anyone has an abundance of it, it's Iverson.

So the question becomes, which position should we have him man? Offense seems to be OK, so that puts him on the D. He's too small for LB (even for JJ), so I say we toss him in at safety. Move Dawk to SS and have AI play FS would be my vote.

3:13 PM EST  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Because we no longer have a professional basketball team in Philadelphia, we took our son to see the Wissahickon Trojans (Ambler, PA) take out the Hatboro-Horsham Hatters last night. High school basketball is a blast. For the total of $8, we sat courtside, stomped our feet on the wooden bleachers, and chanted "air ball" at the opposition in unison with the student body. The Trojans prevailed in a nail-biter. What a way to cap a vacation day.

The hell with the NBA. Nevertheless, I'll miss AI, who I'm told was a heck of a good high school quarterback if this helps with Phil's question.

Ed Wade

11:04 AM EST  
Blogger The Mean Guy said...

I'm told was a heck of a good high school quarterback if this helps with Phil's question.

i think AI won virginia high school player of the year awards for both football and basketball his junior year in high school -- as a QB and kick returner in football i believe.

12:30 PM EST  

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