Tuesday, September 19, 2006

Game 2 Re-Revisited

from big dog:
The things that upset me are:
1. They didn't close the deal
2. Reid mismanaged some of the clock and had some suspect play selection.
3. The offense stopped attacking.
4. The defense stopped attacking.
5. The running game was not able to grind out the clock....and we all know that they didn't have enough talent in the backfield, and or the line gave no holes, it is tough to see, but Westbrook was getting hit in the backfield every time. If they stopped being aggressive, which was not a bad game plan, they needed to grind out the clock. This is a problem that we all knew about.
6. Westbrook had a critical drop.
7. LJ had a critical drop (tough catch though)
8. Stallworth had a critical drop.
big dog, i agree with all of your points except for 3 and 4.

3) i think it may have seemed like the offense stopped attacking because they stopped executing well, but when you break down the play selection in the second half and the overtime it does not support that conclusion.

second half play calls:
- run - westbrook run for 13 yards
- pass - mcnabb scrambles for 7
- run - westbrook for 1
- pass - stallworth for 11
- run - buck for 6
- run - westbrook for 8
- pass - brown for 23 - TD
- run - westbrook for 2
- pass - westbrook for 11
- run - buck for nada (runyan penalty)
- run - buck for -4
- pass - LJ for 19
- pass - incomplete (westbrook drop iirc)
- punt
- pass - tapeh for 1
- run - westbrook for nada
- pass - mcnabb sacked -6
- punt
- pass - stallworth incomplete
- run - westbrook for 7
- run - westbrook for 2
- run - buck for nada (turnover on downs. i agree with the call. coaches should almost always go for it on 4th and 1 in opponent terr. there are a number of analyses that highlight why it is prudent to go for it. here is one.)
- pass - reggie brown incomplete (drop along the sidelines iirc)
- pass - schobel for 11
- penalty on mcnabb for head fake
- run - westbrook for 9
- run - westbrook for 2 (fumble)
- now there is 3:22 left, the idea should be to run out the clock
- run - westbrook for nada (giants timeout iirc)
- pass - mcnabb scramble for 3 (giants timeout iirc)
- pass - greg lewis for 13 (first down)
- run - westbrook for nada (2:00 warning)
- run - westbrook for -2 (giants timeout iirc)
- pass - tapeh for 8
- punt

- pass - stallworth incomplete (stallworth drop, GAH!)
- pass - screen to LJ for -3 (giants knew this play was coming, GAH!!!!)
- pass - LJ incomplete (LJ drop, GAAAAH!!!!!)

that's 14 passes and 16 runs in the second half and 3 straight passes in overtime. i don't know if you can say that he stopped attacking. i think they obviously didn't execute the running plays very well and all the passes directed at the black josh parry didn't make much sense, but every possession in the second half and overtime started with a pass except for 2 (and one of those ended up in a TD).

4) i agree that they stopped attacking on defense, but i don't think that was by choice. they stopped attacking once hood got hurt. after hood went out, JJ pulled back and started rolling coverage to hanson's side. i'm sure it killed most of the gameplan JJ had coming into the game, but i don't know if you can necessarily assign blame here.

i'm not defending the coaching for the game -- i think the giants coaches out-coached the eagles coaches -- but i also don't think it's fair to characterize what happened as a failure to attack.



Anonymous me-was said...

I think it's fair to characterize what happened as a complete breakdown of competitive advantage. It isn't a play calling thing at all. Football is all about "edge." The Eagles had it and lost it. They aren't the first team this has happened to and they won't be the last.

The game is over. Move on. The talent is there.

11:03 PM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is TMQ correct in saying that Vincent will be able to sign with other teams after he heals? If so, shouldn't the Eagles try to sign him for a minimum deal given the CB situation?


10:01 AM EDT  
Anonymous Phil said...

Shouldn't we be discussing the 49ers who suddenly aren't as bad as they have been? I'm not sure we can ink in the W quite yet. Think it's going to be more of a game than we all thought 2 weeks ago not because of PHI, but because Smith looks like he might actually be a QB now that he has a WR and RB to help out a little bit.

Simon, this was discussed a week or so ago. Yes, he can sign with anyone. The problem is that he's been playing safety the past 2 years cause he's too slow to play corner anymore. I agree he's a great character guy, but not worth signing regardless as we need playmakers.

10:25 AM EDT  
Blogger The Mean Guy said...

i think i'm in the pro-vincent camp. is he really worse than joselio hanson and dustin fox at this point? you'd think just based on experience alone he could help out.

maybe he doesn't have deep speed anymore, but i'm thinking he'd at least be a good guy to put on a TE or slot WR.

also, what's with promoting dustin fox from the practice squad? isn't donald strickland still out there unsigned? i guess the fact that he's still unsigned is a good indication of what teams think of him.

10:34 AM EDT  
Blogger The Big Dog said...

Dustin Fox is a white dude... Ouch, not a whole lot of white brothers playing corner these days....hope he doesn't have "sneaky speed" and is "cerebral" and can cover NFL receivers.

10:44 AM EDT  
Anonymous Phil said...

Question: How did the Eagles get "out coached"? If the defensive breakdowns were due to personel issues (i.e. no corners) and the offensive performance due to execution (i.e. dropped passes), then why blame the coaches? Most of us are even saying going for it on 4th down was the right play. Where did Reid/Johnson fall down again? Conversely, what did the NYG coaches do besides attacking the weak corners?

12:23 PM EDT  
Anonymous Phil said...

Eagles move up the rankings 1 spot despite their loss and now have the best offense YTD:


12:42 PM EDT  
Blogger The Mean Guy said...

How did the Eagles get "out coached"?

on offense, there were some coaching mistakes, IMO.
- passing on 2nd & 1, 3rd & 1, and 4th & 1
- waste timeout before a punt
- too many plays targeting tapeh

after halftime, the giants took away stallworth by rolling coverage toward him. how much of the offenses ineffectiveness in the second half was due to just poor execution and how much was due to andy calling bad plays (e.g. the ones at tapeh)? i'm not sure, but the results seem to indicate that the giants adjustments were more effective.

on defense, JJ was hamstrung by the loss of hood, but that explains why they stopped being as aggressive as they were in the first half. in the second half, the giants coaches adjusted to the pressure by calling more three step drops and getting the ball out of eli's hands quickly. they also went max protect and started keeping a TE in to block. those two adjustments helped to keep the rush away from manning. since the giants only had three guys out running patterns on most plays, JJ should have been able to stop the dink and dunk passing. sure, he protected himself deep on hanson's side, which impacted their run defense as well, but that shouldn't have necessarily made them so porous against the short passing game that the giants used in the second half.

i don't blame them for the loss. i think the most important factors were:
1) relaxing and starting to celebrate too early and 2)luck, but coaching definitely played a part as well.

1:56 PM EDT  
Anonymous Phil said...

I'll give you passing on 4th and 1 and wasted TO, but if they run the other 2x then you're talking about an offense that stopped attacking. You can't have it both ways. The Tapeh passes were probably more of a strategy change and if he catches that 1 (execution) they pick up the 1st. Just because you disagree with strategy doesn't necessarily mean they got outcoached.

Just because the Giants made offensive adjustments doesn't mean our D got outcoached because it didn't have the players. The short dinks exposed our LBs, which everyone knows is this D's major weakness. Again, I think we're talking about execution more than coaching unless you're arguing they should have blitzed more (didn't hear that though).

I'm not so much trying to stick up for the coaches here as play devils advocate. Obviously, the coaches could have done a better job. I don't think that means they got out coached though.

2:14 PM EDT  
Blogger The Mean Guy said...

I don't think that means they got out coached though.

if i ask myself "did the eagles coaches have a better gameplan coming into the game?" the answer is "yes"

if i ask myself, "did the giants coaches do a better job than the eagles coaches within the game?" i answer "yes"

by my definition, that means they were outcoached. i don't think they were dominated or that they were clearly inferior, but i do think it had a meaningful impact on the game.

i have few (if any) measures of assessing coaches performance other than whether or not i agree with their strategy, since strategy is where coaches add the most value within the game.

2:20 PM EDT  
Blogger The Mean Guy said...

i'd like to add that i am not off the andy reid bandwagon. just because he got outcoached in one game doesn't mean that i think he should be fired.

i still think he's the best coach the eagles have ever had and probably one of the top 5 coaches in the game.

that doesn't mean he's perfect, but i don't see who could come in and be an upgrade.

BTW - the latest coaching "genius" is stinking up the joint in miami. andy was already well on his way to the playoffs by his second season.

2:26 PM EDT  
Anonymous Phil said...

And Gruden's not doing much after his SB win with Dungy's team.

2:40 PM EDT  

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