Wednesday, October 15, 2008

NFL Trades

i wasn't expecting them to get him, but i can't help but be disappointed that the eagles weren't able to/chose not to add tony gonzalez to the roster. i'm not sure what really happened given that i've heard a number of conflicting reports:

- the chiefs were never really going to trade him and all the teams that inquired were never given specific demands

- the chiefs were asking for a 3rd and teams were offering 4th and 5th round picks

- the chiefs were asking for a 2nd rounder

but i'd surely have paid a second or third for gonzalez (especially given that the birds have an extra first round pick next season). sigh.

i'm not sure what the decision point here was, but i think these are some potential lines of thought:

1) the eagles consider themselves to be championship contenders already and didn't feel that gonzalez was an upgrade over littlejohn

2) the eagles do not consider themselves to be championship contenders given how the roster is shaping up this season so are looking ahead to building around kolb with all the extra picks next season

3) the eagles do not consider themselves to be championship contenders with the roster as constructed but also don't think that gonzalez will be enough to push them over the top

4) the eagles thought gonzalez would be an upgrade but the asking price was way too high

it is not possible that the eagles are thinking that they are championship contenders based on the way the season has played out so far. certainly, i think they can be among the handful of good teams in the league if they "play to their potential", but they clearly have a weakness at tight end and gonzalez is both a better blocker and receiver than anyone on their roster.

so i'm thinking it has to be one of the last three and i'm really starting to think that number 2 is what is really going on. the way the cowboys won the superbowls under jimmy johnson was to stock up a ton of high draft picks and have them all grow up together around a young QB.

i think it's definitely possible that andy's been gearing up the birds for the post-mcnabb era and trading for an almost done gonzalez doesn't fit into that plan.

-------

regarding the cowboys trade for williams, my reaction is... meh.

a) williams is only a good wideout. he's not a true number 1 and certainly not a difference maker

b) this is not the NBA where the team that gets the single best player wins every trade. in the NFL teams that trade multiple picks for a single player generally lose out on that trade.

c) i think the biggest outcome of this trade is that the cowboys look to be ready to cut bait on me-o

Labels:

17 Comments:

Blogger MS69 said...

More likely that the Eagles will continue to stock draft picks so they can make more draft day trades for more future draft picks, pushing the expectations of the fans farther towards the horizon. Thats their greatest strength.

I hope the "Cowboys are gonna cut TO" pool works out better for you then the "TO will cause the Cowboys to implode" pool worked out. What are we on Year 3 with no implosion?

4:52 PM EDT  
Blogger The Mean Guy said...

"TO will cause the Cowboys to implode" pool worked out. What are we on Year 3 with no implosion?

i'd argue that he's imploding the cowboys as we speak. one of the reasons the cowboy offense has been so disjointed in recent weeks is that romo has been trying to force him the ball even when me-o is not open to try to make him happy and to stop him from whining about "me just having confidence in my own abilities and knowing what i can do."

let's see what happens after the first game where roy has 8 catches and me-o has 2.

5:32 PM EDT  
Blogger The Mean Guy said...

More likely that the Eagles will continue to stock draft picks so they can make more draft day trades for more future draft picks, pushing the expectations of the fans farther towards the horizon. Thats their greatest strength.

the eagles have generally been aggressive about trading multiple picks to move up in drafts to get players that they liked. the fact that they are hoarding picks for next season is not the norm for them.

5:34 PM EDT  
Blogger MS69 said...

"the eagles have generally been aggressive about trading multiple picks to move up in drafts to get players that they liked. the fact that they are hoarding picks for next season is not the norm for them"

Im saying that it will become the norm, just like people having been calling the TO Implosion. Were you onboard with the trading of this years #1?

6:24 PM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If TMG's conclusion is correct, that the Eagles "do not consider themselves to be championship contenders given how the roster is shaping up this season so are looking ahead to build around Kolb with all the extra picks next season," this should sound an alarm that rings really loud.

Why?

The Eagles spent a boatload of money to acquire a playmaking CB, because they correctly recognized that this is a playmaker's league, and not producing turnovers last year directly lead to their demise. You don't break the bank unless you think you are on the cusp of contention, particularly when you make a move that will cause locker room animosity. If after only six games, the braintrust has concluded it hasn't the roster to make a run, and that no interim moves could solve the problem, in the parity league, should be ashamed.

There are probably really legitimate reasons why NFL teams don't make moves in-season. I think Joe made a good point about the trade deadline being really early. I'm guessing what he means is that since no right-thinking team has written off the season so early, there is a limit to the available talent teams will part with. Makes sense.

It's OK for Bumble to conclude the season is "O-V-E-R" because he's a passionate fan, and that's what passionate fans say when they're frustrated.

If TMG is right, and the braintrust of the Eagles has drawn the same conclusion, we need a new braintrust. This is the NFL - a league that is highly unpredictable. Games and seasons turn on a couple of big plays and (sometimes) lucky breaks. Seasons turn on momentum, adrenaline, scheduling, rhythm, and injuries. Romo just got hurt. Big surprise? Not really. What if Manning gets hurt? What if Donovan and Westbrook stay healthy?

Is it going to happen? Who knows, but the Eagles are in this thing right now, and in my opinion ought to be perservering and trying to win right now.

Baseball teams do it all the time, and it doesn't have to mean giving up the future for immediate gratification. The Phillies gave up Fabio Castro to pick up a left-hand hitting pinch hitter. Seemed like a small deal until Stairs parked the game winner the other night.

I'm still not getting the "football people" who refuse to try to be creative in the middle of a season. There has to be something to it, but I'm not seeing it still, although admittedly I'm just killing time until game #5 tonight. Where am I going wrong?

Ed Wade

7:33 PM EDT  
Anonymous Phil said...

Apparently, WIP is saying the Eagles made a run at Winslow. Replacing 1 constantly injured TE with a severe case of the dropsies with a constantly injured TE who thinks he's Evel Knievel with a severe case of the dropsies would have really been grand.

Oh, and FO's DVOA has Philly as the best team in the league. Yikes.

8:32 PM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I may be a passionate fan, but I am also a knowledgable football guy and the Birds have gaping chasms in their philosophies and personnel right now. I am furious with how poorly their picks have developed. They have failed draft after draft to get quality people and for a team whose philosophy is building through the draft, that is unacceptable. Too many people on this site put blind faith in Reid and McNabb to just overcome, but that isn't how you win in this league. Don is not a West Coast QB. I get angry watching him having to deal with these awful weapons week in and week out and a stubborn coach who fails to learn from past stupidity. Let's look at some recent picks (within the last 4-5 years) to see where things are going horribly wrong for this team

1. Bunkley-looked awful year one, good last year, awful this year. Thus far a bad pick

2. Mike Patterson-I like Mike, he is a tough guy who makes a lot of hustle plays, but he is not a DT who splits the line and makes plays in the backfield-as you'd expect a first round DT to do. He makes good plays on the run and is not a liability, but is the type of player who needs to be matched with a dominant DT to shine and he is not.

3. Gocong-He isn't a good LB. This is not his fault, he should never have been drafted to be an LB. He cannot cover anyone and he gets blocked all the time. His talent is rushing the passer, but JJ refuses to take advantage of that skill.

4. Jean Gilles-Big fat guy with bad feet who gets abused by quick pass rushers.

5. Andrews-stud but mentally unstable and always hurt

6. LJ-one of the 3 worst TE in the league. To think they could've had Witten here.

7. Hunt-round 3 pick. Too slow for RB, too much of an RB to play FB. Any of us who watch PSU on Saturdays, as I do every Saturday, knew this guy was never going to be a pro back

8. Herremans-Would be a very good O lineman at his natural position of OT. He is more suited for the pass blocking and less suited for inerior power game.

9. Baskett-The kid can play, but Reid refuses to include him in the game plan on a weekly basis. Kind of unfair to put him in here as this was not a Reid draft pick but a Childress gift.

10. Considine-Terrible safety, good special team player.

11. Kolb-I hate his mechanics. throws off his back foot all the time, is very afraid of the rush and back pedals 10 yards before frantically tossing the ball up for grabs. He also seems like a sour guy to me who I could se struggling to be a leader. He will be an infinite step down from Don. This was really not a good pick for many reasons.

12. Jackson-Can play but seems to get in the doghouse for rookie mistakes. Who cares, best athlete on the team, get him the ball 10 times a game.

13. Laws-College stats said he could play, looks like an inconsequnetial player thus far. Maybe he'll improve next year.

14. Celek-looked great in year one, but that super Eagles coaching has really helped him regress to a below average TE. he may have just played over his ehad a bit last year.

15. All of the busts who never played a snap.

This team positions itself as one who builds through the draft, but they don't. They have no depth and very little skill at core positions. It makes me sick to watch them each week knowing that other teams change as the game changes and they're still stuck with an offense that no one else runs anymore and a defense that teams figured out how to block 4 years ago.

Yes I am passionate because this management group gets way too much credit for being good and they aren't. It's easy to dominate an NFC East run by Jim Fassel, Dave Campo, and Steve Spurrier. When betetr people took the other jobs, this team has never answered the bell

Bumble

8:53 PM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know it's a back injury, but is anyone else getting suspicious that Andrews had made zero progress with this injury despite seeing 4 specialists. No one can pinpoint the issue. I know backs are generally a big mystery, but is there any shot that this is a "back" injury (read more depression) than a back injury?

Probably not, but this team won't start playing to their potential until he returns and every week that looks more and more bleak.

Bumble

8:30 AM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

They got a FB and cut JR Reed, yet they kept Sean Cantsodine.
SUPER BOWL BOYZZZZZZZZZ

Captain

7:19 PM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I cannot bitch on this move Cap. I have been screaming for an FB and they got one. I liked Reed's story a lot, but truth be told Considine has made more plays on special teams. I suspect injuries and such will lead to Reed coming back soon. He seems like a good kid, but a 5 year special teamer is basically expendable by any definition.

I loved Eckel coming out of Navy. He seems smart and tough and will be a faster pulling guard. I also know his dad well (taught at my high school) and he's a Philly guy. Hard not to root for him.

Bumble

8:59 PM EDT  
Anonymous Big Dog said...

Danny and Eckel....got to love them

9:55 AM EDT  
Blogger The Mean Guy said...

Im saying that it will become the norm, just like people having been calling the TO Implosion. Were you onboard with the trading of this years #1?

no, i wasn't in favor of trading the pick, but that has been a recent strategy for them. you could be right that it will become the norm, but i think it's likely to be temporary until the QB change.

4:03 PM EDT  
Blogger The Mean Guy said...

This team positions itself as one who builds through the draft, but they don't. They have no depth and very little skill at core positions. It makes me sick to watch them each week knowing that other teams change as the game changes and they're still stuck with an offense that no one else runs anymore and a defense that teams figured out how to block 4 years ago.

the team does build itself through the draft. your beef with the team is your estimation of the quality of the picks.

Yes I am passionate because this management group gets way too much credit for being good and they aren't. It's easy to dominate an NFC East run by Jim Fassel, Dave Campo, and Steve Spurrier. When betetr people took the other jobs, this team has never answered the bell

and yet it's highly possible that the eagles will finish with 10 wins this season while the cowboys will finish the season outside the playoffs. based on a previous discussion, this will be despite the management/coaching and not because of the management/coaching?

as much as i dislike the approach this regime takes, i continue to think you overestimate the quality of other coaches/GMs. if you compare the eagles to each franchise individually (as opposed to the eagles against the best players/decisions from all other teams), the eagles compare pretty favorably.

there is no infallible team, and the notion that the eagles feasted on weak NFC east teams isn't necessarily accurate. take a look at the analysis derek of igglesblog did on each division after you take the division champion out (http://www.igglesblog.com/iggles_blog/2008/10/defending-andy-reid.html)

4:14 PM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wait a minute TMG, I have to call you out on this one. You say the team does not build through the draft, yet on earlier posts you say the team does not build through free agency, they often only pick up that last piece or two...so how does it build? Or are you saying it does not build?

Bumble

8:23 PM EDT  
Blogger The Mean Guy said...

i'm saying the team does build through the draft -- the makeup of the current roster shows this.

my point was that your statement indicating that they don't build through the draft isn't entirely accurate and that your true beef with the team is that you think their talent evaluation is faulty (which i tend to disagree with).

8:32 PM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't have blind faith in Reid, or the team. I'm just not one who throws in the towel this early. Of course I don't think I've ever used the word furious when describing my feelings about watching football or specifically the Eagles. It is a pass time. A hobby. If it made me furious, I wouldn't go to the games. I already get furious just by job, morons on the roads, comcast customer service etc....

- Joe

8:11 AM EDT  
Anonymous Phil said...

Klecko still the starter. Scrapplelog, REJOICE!

11:13 AM EDT  

Post a Comment

Links to this post:

Create a Link

<< Home